Curse

Flossie · Nov 21, 2008, 06:25 PM // 18:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Yeah, lets compare something that is enjoyable to complete and utter grind that is having to REDO all missions.
That will work!
Good job!

I am still unaware where in the update notes it made redoing missions mandatory. You want the stuff, you redo them. You don't, you don't. Nobody is being forced to do this stuff, if you choose to, fine.

Gill Halendt · Nov 21, 2008, 06:33 PM // 18:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risky Ranger

"We are demanding far less from ANet than a person in that situation." Takeko Nakano

Ok, this whole thread has become a Quote Game.

Let's get back to this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by What Now

I found the books a nice addition but I can't seem to buy the pages. Is this intentional or yet to be added at this time? I hope it's not permanent.

The next developers' notes will probably explain why books are not retroactive and quit this all.

I wish books were retroactive. They aren't. They'll probably never be. Well, I'll get over it, and hope everyone here will do the same.

What really made me upset is people against it being so aggressive and offensive when supporting their arguments, which turned this and the other thread into a flamefest.

Rocky Raccoon · Nov 21, 2008, 06:43 PM // 18:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

Ok, this whole thread has become a Quote Game.

Let's get back to this:

The next developers' notes will probably explain why books are not retroactive and quit this all.

I wish books were retroactive. They aren't. They'll probably never be. Well, I'll get over it, and hope everyone here will do the same.

What really made me upset is people against it being so aggressive and offensive when supporting their arguments, which turned this and the other thread into a flamefest.

If quotes are not to be used, why is there a quote button?
I don't think the aggressiveness came from only one side of the argument, I think it can be seen from both sides.

MStarfire · Nov 21, 2008, 06:43 PM // 18:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

What really made me upset is people against it being so aggressive and offensive when supporting their arguments, which turned this and the other thread into a flamefest.

You've got me all wrong. I'm not against it. If we get retroactive rewards, fine. If we're allowed to buy a book, fine. If we're not, that's fine too.

I'm against people thinking they're entitled to huge rewards and are complaining because they're not getting them. I hate that people are presenting the argument of "well, new players get just as much reward as us veterans and I don't think that's fair" as proof that the update is imbalanced or unfair or whatever. That's what I'm against.

Shasgaliel · Nov 21, 2008, 06:44 PM // 18:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

The next developers' notes will probably explain why books are not retroactive and quit this all.

I wish books were retroactive. They aren't. They'll probably never be. Well, I'll get over it, and hope everyone here will do the same.

I am afraid this will not happen.We have not received many justifications from Anet so far.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

What really made me upset is people against it being so aggressive and offensive when supporting their arguments, which turned this and the other thread into a flamefest.

I think all longer threads have the same fate here on GWG. Actually I would mention both sides here not only one.

Gill Halendt · Nov 21, 2008, 06:54 PM // 18:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by MStarfire

You've got me all wrong. I'm not against it. If we get retroactive rewards, fine. If we're allowed to buy a book, fine. If we're not, that's fine too.

That's me too. I've stated this at least twice, yet you called me an idiot. Well, thanks.

More than this. I've been filling my new books in the last few days, so even if the books become retroactive now, I doubt I'll get a "retroactive" reward, since there's no way they've kept track of what I've done BEFORE and what AFTER the update. So see if I care.

Asking is free. No one stopped playing for protest and I really hope no one quitted because of this. I don't see players on strike demanding anything here.

That's only what overly dramatic detractors wanted to see in this discussion. They went against overly dramatic supporters and this is the result...

Well, at least I increased my post-count.

MStarfire · Nov 21, 2008, 07:33 PM // 19:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

That's me too. I've stated this at least twice, yet you called me an idiot. Well, thanks.

Anytime.

Quote:

More than this. I've been filling my new books in the last few days, so even if the books become retroactive now, I doubt I'll get a "retroactive" reward, since there's no way they've kept track of what I've done BEFORE and what AFTER the update. So see if I care.

Asking is free. No one stopped playing for protest and I really hope no one quitted because of this. I don't see players on strike demanding anything here.

That's only what overly dramatic detractors wanted to see in this discussion. They went against overly dramatic supporters and this is the result...

Well, at least I increased my post-count.

I think I nabbed a solid +12 posts. Also, based on the Dev update notes, it looks like I was right all along: nobody deserved anything. So, everyone, thanks for the laughs, and thanks for showing us the true meaning of "if you give them an inch..."

See you next update.

Fril Estelin · Nov 21, 2008, 07:42 PM // 19:42

Hey Dreamwind, and the others that thought that the "economy" explanation was bogus,

Don't take it personally or as an attack, but I thought that for the sake of "fairness", I'd mention the fact that you were wrong on Anet not explaining their decision in the recent Nov 21 update notes. You said among other things:

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

I am talking about Anet coming out and giving us a LEGIT statement on the matter. As it is we have several conflicting statements from them on why it happened, and we still don't know the real reason.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

Maybe...but if it is completely impossible they should just come out and say it is completely impossible. Instead we get "it would be bad for the economy" which tells me it is possible but they didn't want to do it.

<SNIP>

3rd bold- If they are making an effort to make changes retroactive why not this one? Its either it is impossible to do or they really believe it affects the economy. Which one is it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

You think?? The only official statements out of Anet have been shaky at best. I will tell you right now the economy argument is a joke on so many levels, and the reason they won't bring it up again it because they know it is too. The argument that they can't technically do it is also a joke because we know it has been done in EOTN. It has even got to the point where Linsey admitted it is unfair, and yet people are still sitting here trying to claim it is fair.

On the other hand (since it's only fair!), they haven't commented on the possibility to only grant factions for retroactive books, which I think would be very legitimate due to the explanation I gave here.

Gill Halendt · Nov 21, 2008, 07:43 PM // 19:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by MStarfire

it looks like I was right all along: nobody deserved anything.

Mhh. Looks like the other way around to me:

Quote:

Storybook Retroactivity

Storybook NPCs allow players to purchase the pages of missions completed without having the book in inventory. However, we decided not to allow players to purchase the pages of missions that were completed prior to the update. This was a difficult decision to make, but an important one.

We monitor the economy closely and found a significant fluctuation in how much gold players had on average after the addition of the M.O.X. quests (which give a 10 platinum reward). If we allowed players to purchase those pages, any character that had completed all three campaigns in Normal Mode would be receiving 18 platinum and 42,750 gold for Hard Mode completion for a grand total of 60,750 gold. In light of how much the economy was affected by just 10 platinum, the inflation caused by giving out 60 platinum per character was too significant for us to allow.

Looks to me more like "You probably deserve it, we even considered it, yet there's something more important we have to care about, which is economy".

Nothing new, actually, we didn't need numbers to know. I still think they could have found viable solutions for this if they just wanted to, but anyway, who cares now.

HawkofStorms · Nov 21, 2008, 08:00 PM // 20:00

But harming the economy also impacts YOU. It affects everyone. They aren't screwing you over, they are protecting you from inflation. You don't "deserve" anything, because what you wanted, and what you "deserved" would have ultimately harmed you.

Rocky Raccoon · Nov 21, 2008, 08:03 PM // 20:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

Mhh. Looks like the other way around to me:

Looks to me more like "You probably deserve it, we even considered it, yet there's something more important we have to care about, which is economy".

Nothing new, actually, we didn't need numbers to know. I still think they could have found viable solutions for this if they just wanted to, but anyway, who cares now.

I really don't understand the us against them attitude that some people have with ANET. You ask for an explanation, you receive an explanation now you denigrate that explanation.

Kattar · Nov 21, 2008, 08:06 PM // 20:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risky Ranger

I really don't understand the us against them attitude that some people have with ANET. You ask for an explanation, you receive an explanation now you denigrate that explanation.

The short answer is: people will complain about anything. Some people can't be pleased, doesn't matter what it is.

But at least the issues have been addressed, so other threads about them can be closed or ignored.

Fril Estelin · Nov 21, 2008, 08:16 PM // 20:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katsumi

But at least the issues have been addressed, so other threads about them can be closed or ignored.

I'm afraid that some people will say that they're not (and somewhat I agree on this specific point, but I think they'd be pushing too much...). You can already see it coming: they haven't considered giving retro-books for factions only. And here we go again (well, not me this time

)...

Frozy · Nov 21, 2008, 08:26 PM // 20:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risky Ranger

I really don't understand the us against them attitude that some people have with ANET. You ask for an explanation, you receive an explanation now you denigrate that explanation.

We asked why we aren't getting the faction, they told us why we aren't getting the gold, meaning we didn't get an explanation for that issue.

Gill Halendt · Nov 21, 2008, 08:30 PM // 20:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risky Ranger

I really don't understand the us against them attitude that some people have with ANET. You ask for an explanation, you receive an explanation now you denigrate that explanation.

What? How am I denigrating it? Actually, I was replying to MStarfire, who said that players "don't deserve anything" after reading the notes. I don't think so, by saying they had to take an important and difficult decision, they actually said the very opposite thing. They said they've been carefully considering which route to follow, for our good. Is that so denigrating to you?!

They said too much money would cause inflation. Well, it's just what this whole thread has been wheeling around for 20 pages. So there's nothing new, no misterious "technical issue" preventing them to make books retroactive, as someone hypothesized. That's enough for me.

It's an answer. I just think they could have found an alternative solution if they wanted (a couple of which have been suggested here, for example), yet it's not me to say what they are supposed to do about it, so I and everyone around must just accept it.

Kattar · Nov 21, 2008, 08:37 PM // 20:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

What? How am I denigrating it? Actually, I was replying to MStarfire, who said that players "don't deserve anything" after reading the notes. I don't think so, by saying they had to take an important and difficult decision, they actually said the very opposite thing. Is that so denigrating to you?!

You'll notice MStarfire was banned. Guess the reason?

Don't feed the trolls kids.

upier · Nov 21, 2008, 08:38 PM // 20:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flossie

I am still unaware where in the update notes it made redoing missions mandatory. You want the stuff, you redo them. You don't, you don't. Nobody is being forced to do this stuff, if you choose to, fine.

Of course.
The problem with your example was rather the fact that redoing missions 80ish times surely isn't as fun as just going out for dinner 80 times and getting 80 toys.
We are dealing with a PvP title that was modified into a PvE title because A.Net was too lazy to add a new one for the PvE skills. But having done so - they didn't modify the title itself and thus it still keeps the PvP properties of being hard to max.

What retroactive books could have done is SLIGHTLY fix the mess they made. It's a PvE title that maxes at 10 million. And given amount of things (and what they actually are - since it's not a 5 minute LB/SS farm but it's rather a 30 minutes vanquish!) that actually help you advance this title - the number is just too high.

DreamWind · Nov 21, 2008, 09:11 PM // 21:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

Hey Dreamwind, and the others that thought that the "economy" explanation was bogus,

On the other hand (since it's only fair!), they haven't commented on the possibility to only grant factions for retroactive books, which I think would be very legitimate due to the explanation I gave here.

I will address the statement in the appropriate thread.

Mr.Bimble · Nov 26, 2008, 12:30 PM // 12:30

A/b is still too empty of people to be able to get battles quickly. Doesn't make raising faction for my alliance any better or more interesting than hfffing. So I have another uninspiring update. Shame when you consider the special weekends. Halloween and Canthan new year show that anet doesn't RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO everything up. Pity....

persuadu · Nov 26, 2008, 03:42 PM // 15:42

Non retroactive books reward new players.

For those veterans who already did the work, they just made it easier for someone to come along and do the same WITHOUT rewarding the folks who already did it.

I think if Anet cared about their playerbase, they would have rewarded the veterans with something special. I understand about their economy, so why not give a weapon or aura or special customized whatever to those of us who did all this work before the update? Maybe a little parrot or monkey or some crap like that.

If they want new players, they need to either 1) Start advertizing better, or 2) Get existing players happy enough to spread the word of mouth.

They did not do right by those of us who put the work in before hand.